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Paladin Balance Opinions

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:52 pm
by claiminglight
I should qualify myself a little by saying that I'm a game maker, not a paladin fanboy! :D

The Paladin seems deeply weak when compared to the to the Champion. The Champion enjoys favorable spell level breaks, (like Death Ward at 7th, rather than 9th) gains many more spells, and yet retains the same attack bonuses and raw saves. I'm not convinced that a +2 to saves (and a potential +2 more to fear saves) is worth the cost.

Whilst on the topic of the Paladin, Holy Shield, while cool, is an odd saddle to put on the class. It essentially forces a sword and board style with the class, but, due to their somatic spells, forces a Sword and Small Board style. D&D has often discouraged certain armaments with class abilities, but it hasn't (and shouldn't have) forced certain equipment types. I think this ability, while cool, needs to be reconsidered to allow for broader character choices. Alternatively, Paladins might be the only class allowed to cast somatic spells with all shields, like a free still spell effect. That actually might go part of the way toward equalizing them with the Champion.

The movement away from a Charisma-focused Divine Grace makes the Smite Evil's reliance on Charisma stick out poorly. The Paladin still requires a high score in Charisma to use their single strongest ability-- but the fringe benefits of that score- Turning and Saves- are lost.

Though Immunity to Fear is a weird thing for a character to have (it makes them like holy psychopaths), it's removal wasn't replaced with anything. It's strange to see the Fighter gain something like 25-30 feats added to their class abilities when compared to SRD while the Paladin has only lost abilities or had them weakened.

Pierre, did a Paladin hurt you in the past? Show me on the doll where the Paladin smited you.

Re: Paladin Balance Opinions

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:51 am
by LordSith
I should qualify myself as someone who never played IRL games of D&D 3+ . I only played NWN2 and pathfinder kingmaker.

So when I create a party, I take the classes as their "fun" & cosmetic potential.I wanted a paladin because it is so cool. Like in BG2, I wanted it to have a two handed sword.

In game, I was very disappointed with it because I had to have a shield+sword to enjoy most of the feat.

So I totally agree.

Besides, why don't my paladin heal with his hands like in every D&D game I played? did they remove that from the class?

I pretty much never cast spell with my paladins in any games, but laying hands or whatever the name was, is an absolute must have.

Re: Paladin Balance Opinions

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:08 am
by Hesmah
I definitely agree, something should be done to boost paladin! There's only a few good paladin spells I think, such as mass greater protection from alignment, but that's nothing special. Holy sword sounded nice, but it replaces all enhancements on you weapon. By the time you get it you already have tons of great weapons that are probably better than just +5 holy. So that special form of paladin spellcasting ends up being pretty much useless.

As it is I think champions just do everything better than a paladin does except saves. They even have better feats! Divine weapon is much better than heroic weapon in my opinion.

One small redeeming factor I found for paladin was being an archer. You can get the shield bonuses while using a bow since you can have both equipped at the same time. It's a bit silly but it works. Too bad smite doesn't work while ranged, but since it's just couple of attacks in each encounter anyway, you probably get to dish them out if you need them.

Re: Paladin Balance Opinions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:00 pm
by BlueSalamander
Thank you. Yup, I have already promised during the KS campaign that I would improve the Paladin.

He will get the Fear immunity, a charisma-based Divine Grace bonus to saving throws (up to +4), and charisma-based bonus spell slots. I also think it's a good idea to have a new Paladin feat (Shield Casting) that will allow the Paladin to cast spells while holding a Heavy Shield or Tower Shield. Cheers :)