Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

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Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby rpgguy » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:10 pm

Under races class recommendation, the rogue mantis is never mentioned, why? the high starting dexterity ( 20 ), the natural armor, the extra movement rate and finally the ability to wield 4 light weapons all sound perfect for a rogue character. Why is it not recommended then for the mantis to be a rogue?

Wouldn't a 1st level mantis rogue be able to wield 4 daggers with its weapon finesse feat and unleash 4 sneak attacks with a +5 to hit dex bonus? ( and later even more attacks with two weapon fighting feats )

Can a 1st level kobold rogue attack with a dagger in each hand +his bite and deliver 3 sneak attacks?

Can mantises put anything at all in their armor slots ( like a robe ) later in the game or will the armor slot be forever empty?
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Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby Tiavals » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:25 am

It's due to the low intelligence and overall stat points, I presume.

Rogues have spells, many that have important Spell DCs, which Intelligence affects. Therefore, Rogue Mantises aren't suited for the role, as Rogues in KOTC2 are hybrid spellcasters rather than pure melee characters.

At first level, sure the Mantis is great, but at later levels it may not be the case.
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby rpgguy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:14 am

Well a mantis can start with 14 intelligence, which gives you access to all rogue spells right from the start ( their max spell level is 4 ) , you get a +2 bonus to spell dc and damage and by level 8 you could pump it to 16 if you prefer to focus on that. A kobold would probably focus on dexterity and get to 20 by level 8 which a mantis already has at level 1

A hybrid fighter/caster in D&D 3.5 like paladin, ranger, psychic warrior were always fine with a wisdom starting score of 14 and you usually wont even need to upgrade it
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby BlueSalamander » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:39 pm

Under races class recommendation, the rogue mantis is never mentioned, why?
Because I didn't think about it. :) Yes, a Rogue Mantis works very well, considering the armour thing and the multiple light attacks. A Rogue only has a medium BAB, though. Also, the Search skill is usually associated with intelligence, but it depends on the adventure whether the intelligence score is checked or not.

Wouldn't a 1st level mantis rogue be able to wield 4 daggers with its weapon finesse feat and unleash 4 sneak attacks with a +5 to hit dex bonus? ( and later even more attacks with two weapon fighting feats )
Yes, she can do that.

Can a 1st level kobold rogue attack with a dagger in each hand + his bite and deliver 3 sneak attacks?
Yes.

Can mantises put anything at all in their armor slots ( like a robe ) later in the game or will the armor slot be forever empty?
Currently it remains empty through the game. I guess I could create some torso items that only Mantises can wear.
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby rpgguy » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:38 pm

That would be really nice, I really hate when your character have a slot that remains empty throughout the whole game, even if it's just something really minor like rags of +1 to initiative or even +1 hp...
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby itsdat » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:03 pm

rpgguy wrote:That would be really nice, I really hate when your character have a slot that remains empty throughout the whole game, even if it's just something really minor like rags of +1 to initiative or even +1 hp...


Agreed. 8-)
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby rpgguy » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:33 am

How about adding this cool item to the game, make it take the chest slot, usable by any race/sex/class: ( even a monk mantis )
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Corset_of_Holding_(3.5e_Equipment)
Here is the description:

Corset of Holding: These overbust corsets are typically made from leather or brocade and have mithril boning. These items automatically size themselves to the wearer in the most flattering way possible and self-lace (and unlace) on command (only by the wearer). The wearers bust is generally displayed to great advantage, granting the wearer a +2 circumstance bonus to charisma based checks. Additionally the bust portion of the corset acts as a bag of holding that weighs nothing, holds up to 250lbs of equipment with a max of 30 cubic feet, and the wearer may put items into and take them out of the top without disturbing or damaging their breasts.

Moderate (DC 18) conjuration;CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item: Secret Chest; Cost 4000 gp, 160 XP, 8 Days; Activation: Standard; Weight: 1 lb. lb.; Market Price: 4,000 gp
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Re: Mantis Rogue vs Kobold Rogue

Postby BlueSalamander » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:21 pm

Thank you! Yup, sounds like a nice item that any race could wear. Or there could be something like a Mantis Harness (borrowing from this page https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Thri-kreen). We'll see. 8-)
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