Browsing before I buy

[Khoram]

Well, I sometimes miss the rogue's tumbling (which, while not implemented since there's no skills, could be some kind of "bonus to avoid triggering AOOs") + sneak attack + Uncanny Dodge + Use Magic Device (especially since the AI really goes after my wizard in tough fights, it would be nice to have a rogue be able to read wizard scrolls or use wands). I could see having a class with those features even without all the traps/locks/etc.

[crpgnut]

I played a little of the demo last night. I had brainless Zombies avoiding a web spell. How does something without a brain make such a clever decision? That was weird. Other than that, I spent most of the time reading the rules instead of playing a game. As far as games I've really enjoyed in the past: Wizardry through Bane of the Cosmic Forge, Ultimas 1-6, didn't play 7 for some reason, Exile, Amberstar, all the TES games, Fallout 1-3, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Kult-Heretic, Yendorian Tales 1-3, NWN 1&2, GoldBox games, IceWind Dale, Might and Magic 1-9, 8-9 were weak though. I'm playing WarWizard at the moment, which is a game from 1993. It's all about combat too, though the rules are much simpler. It has secret doors and no auto-mapping which is always a treat. Finding a secret treasure chest is kinda cool.

[ErrrorWayz]

I agree with what the others have said.

In my opinion, CRPGs have always excelled at being "combat simulators" and usually failed at being storytellers. But that's ok, to me, because I like tactical combat and improving stats and getting better loot. If I want a good story, I'll read a book. Interestingly enough, D&D started as offshoots of people playing tactical wargames, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. TOEE had it's problems, but I thought it was the best D&D-based CRPG I've played (until a couple days ago...) precisely because of it's faithful representation of solid tactical, turn based fantasy combat rules.

Agree, but do you feel, in intriguing twist, modern CRPGs are becoming more story telling. See Never Winter Nights 2 (a truely great game in my opinion), the combat descended into farce at points, due to camera issues and the fact half the classes skills were fairly useless, but the ability to direct the story line was inspired. Mass Effect (same company) is another example, awful combat, you could let all your part die and just run round shotgunning people, bit like doom. Story line good. On a tangent, what was the game were you had a flying skull as a companion? It was amusing, as it basically abused you quite bit? It was based on one of the more odd DnD worlds, where everything was based on planes of existance. Any early puzzle involved putting rubbish some sort of receptical, took me ages to figure that out.

[Khoram]

I agree with what the others have said.

In my opinion, CRPGs have always excelled at being "combat simulators" and usually failed at being storytellers. But that's ok, to me, because I like tactical combat and improving stats and getting better loot. If I want a good story, I'll read a book. Interestingly enough, D&D started as offshoots of people playing tactical wargames, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. TOEE had it's problems, but I thought it was the best D&D-based CRPG I've played (until a couple days ago...) precisely because of it's faithful representation of solid tactical, turn based fantasy combat rules.

Agree, but do you feel, in intriguing twist, modern CRPGs are becoming more story telling. See Never Winter Nights 2 (a truely great game in my opinion), the combat descended into farce at points, due to camera issues and the fact half the classes skills were fairly useless, but the ability to direct the story line was inspired. Mass Effect (same company) is another example, awful combat, you could let all your part die and just run round shotgunning people, bit like doom. Story line good. On a tangent, what was the game were you had a flying skull as a companion? It was amusing, as it basically abused you quite bit? It was based on one of the more odd DnD worlds, where everything was based on planes of existance. Any early puzzle involved putting rubbish some sort of receptical, took me ages to figure that out.

Well, you're right, many modern CRPGS are trying to do more story telling, often at the expense of the combat (like Mass Effect, Jade Empire, KOTOR, NWN 2...), and I think they all ultimately failed (for me anyway) because of it. Mass Effect was so painful... that stupid quest to find every single green service alien in the HQ building or whatever... just ugh. BORING. That's not telling a story, that's padding the experience with mind-numbing drudgery so we can say "100 hour storyline!!!1!". I wanted to like NWN2, but between the stilted dialogue and hideous camera/party controls, I couldn't do it. I didn't find the storyline particularly good, either.

The other game you're talking about with the flying skull was Planescape, which was Black Isle's attempt to make a heavy storyline CRPG using the Infinity Engine. I take it from most folks who've played it it was the quintessential masterpiece of story-heavy CRPGs, but to be honest, I barely made it out of the morgue at the beginning before I shelved it. Way too much text, most of which didn't interest me. Again, if I want to read a good story, well I've got a lot of great novels in book form for that. I don't play CRPGs to sit and read 10 paragraphs of text per room. Plus I didn't care for the setting and plot set-up (I guess I'm too old fashioned, I like to be a hero, not an anti-hero).

But hey, that's just me

[Fezzik]

Thought I'd let you know that Ashery over at RPG Codex has started a Let's Play KotC thread. He's doing it in iron man mode, so I don't know how far he'll be able to take a party, but that thread may end up giving you the answers about the game that you seek, crpgnut.

[crpgnut]

I'm actually enjoying the combat quite a bit, though I suck at it. I plan on getting the game, even though I'd prefer more non-combat stuff to do. I figure if I register this, then maybe the Blue dude will flesh out the next game.

[ErrrorWayz]

I got past the Orcs... and killed some stuff in the wild. It's pretty addictive. I like it. I shall play some more.

[crpgnut]

Yep, I got past the few encounters in the knight's tower and I was able to win the encounters in the village, but the lack of a place to save in the next location is giving me fits. I've decided to create a munchkin party to play through the game the first time and then try a legit party on my second run, if I get that far. I kinda suck at D&D combat, though I have no troubles with combat in Wiz-8.