Munchkin penalties?

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I would enchant the coldiron one. Not that it matters much.

[crpgnut]

I really liked the ambush with the trolls and gorgons. Gorgons are the reload creature in the game. If it petrifies your wizard, the game is over. Only a wizard can deal with petrification and they generally have lousy fortitude saves. If I was going to play a 2nd time through, I might try two clerics and two wizards. With spells, clerics can be decent tanks. If you made wands that cast prayer, shield of faith, divine might, etc. and had the wizards haste the party it could be doable.

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I really liked the ambush with the trolls and gorgons. Gorgons are the reload creature in the game. If it petrifies your wizard, the game is over. Only a wizard can deal with petrification and they generally have lousy fortitude saves. If I was going to play a 2nd time through, I might try two clerics and two wizards. With spells, clerics can be decent tanks. If you made wands that cast prayer, shield of faith, divine might, etc. and had the wizards haste the party it could be doable.

I played this party. It's not *doable* it's vastly superior. Improved Initiative + high Dex on your mages means you'll start every combat with say 2 fireballs. All the buffing is quicker, say you need Mass ProEvil, Mass Deathward, Haste, all doable in the first round and still a wizard able to cast an offensive spell. The spider fight early on at lvl 3: just 2 soundbursts and sleep and then coup the grace the spiders. And so on, this party really rocks.

[Darthcast]

I've enchanted the cold-iron halberd... Afterwards, I faced the iron golem at the northernmost town. He was easy to beat without an uber adamantite weapon, so I guess it was the right choice.

I played this party. It's not *doable* it's vastly superior. Improved Initiative + high Dex on your mages means you'll start every combat with say 2 fireballs. All the buffing is quicker, say you need Mass ProEvil, Mass Deathward, Haste, all doable in the first round and still a wizard able to cast an offensive spell. The spider fight early on at lvl 3: just 2 soundbursts and sleep and then coup the grace the spiders. And so on, this party really rocks.

This sounds really interesting. Could you describe the party a little (stats, feats...) How were the later party of the game with your party?

[VentilatorOfDoom]

double post

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I've enchanted the cold-iron halberd... Afterwards, I faced the iron golem at the northernmost town. He was easy to beat without an uber adamantite weapon, so I guess it was the right choice.

I played this party. It's not *doable* it's vastly superior. Improved Initiative + high Dex on your mages means you'll start every combat with say 2 fireballs. All the buffing is quicker, say you need Mass ProEvil, Mass Deathward, Haste, all doable in the first round and still a wizard able to cast an offensive spell. The spider fight early on at lvl 3: just 2 soundbursts and sleep and then coup the grace the spiders. And so on, this party really rocks.

This sounds really interesting. Could you describe the party a little (stats, feats...) How were the later party of the game with your party?

Especially the late part was way easier than normal, like the fight vs Big Red. The only thing is: you can't use slaying arrows since noone has bow prof. Normally you would take elf to circumvent this:-) However it doesn't matter much, you just sell all those arrows for quite some gold since they're expensive. Also I found that they're really only useful against golems or when you're attacked by many humans. The others work not reliable enough, since the target like outsiders or dragons have too high fort saves.

One cleric I made to a melee guy with high STR, increased WIS to 20 all other points into STR. Weapon Focus Wand, Cleave, Great Cleave. I made him a Divine Power wand, adamantine +4 destruction & holy. Scribe Scroll for both Clerics, Improved Initiative, Superior Concentration, Greater Spell Penetration. The second caster-like cleric also had still spell. Other than that crafting feats.
The halfelf wizards were almost identical except different crafting feats. At lvl 18 one took Forge Ring and the other widen spell.
Improved Initiative, Superior Concentration, Greater Spell Penetration, Greater Focus Enchantment, Still, Empower and crafting feats.
I think it was that order:
Superior Concentration,Improved Initiative,enchant wand/enchant weapons&armor, spell penetration, still, greater spellpenetration, focus ench. , greater focus enchantment, empower etc something like that. I even took Weapon Focus ranged touch at lvl20 I think.

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I really liked the ambush with the trolls and gorgons. Gorgons are the reload creature in the game. If it petrifies your wizard, the game is over. Only a wizard can deal with petrification and they generally have lousy fortitude saves. If I was going to play a 2nd time through, I might try two clerics and two wizards. With spells, clerics can be decent tanks. If you made wands that cast prayer, shield of faith, divine might, etc. and had the wizards haste the party it could be doable.

I don't like "challenges" that can only be won by reloading until you make your save.
But gorgons can be good allies, I try to dominate them and then watch how they petrify my foes...

[crpgnut]

Actually, I liked the challenge of trying to kill all the gorgons before they can even get a gaze attack. That was the challenge What I ended up doing was building a wall of stone between my wizard and the gorgons. This allowed my high-fortitude fighters to take out the gorgons, and I had the priest cast the grow-real-big spell to block the trolls from escaping their room. The priest was wearing fire-resistant equipment, so I could throw maximized fireballs at him and he'd still only take 10-15 damage while the trolls were taking 90

I saved before that battle, so that I could play it several times. Some of the battles in this game are just great. This is one of them, IMHO.

[BlueSalamander]

Yep, sounds like a pretty good tactic for this situation.

[Darthcast]

Especially the late part was way easier than normal, like the fight vs Big Red. The only thing is: you can't use slaying arrows since noone has bow prof. Normally you would take elf to circumvent this:-)

Yup, always did that in other RPGs.

However it doesn't matter much, you just sell all those arrows for quite some gold since they're expensive. Also I found that they're really only useful against golems or when you're attacked by many humans. The others work not reliable enough, since the target like outsiders or dragons have too high fort saves.

Of all the slaying arrows I only used those for dragons, and only at the beginning. (Most of the later dragons weren't such a big problem because the party was already strong)
It worked surprisingly well if you actually hit the dragon and have a few arrows.
I didn't try to slay the last dragon when I saw his saves... And I'm glad I didn't try it, the battle was epic.
Spoiler:At first I tried a defensive approach and retreated to the small entrance way - but the enemies just buffed up and were an even bigger threat. When I finally managed to defeat all humans, I didn't had enough resources to defeat the dragon. The chance to hit him was 2% and I couldn't dispel his defensive spells.
Then I tried an offensive approach and casted heightened dehydrate spells at the enemies, that took them out surprisingly quick. But I still wasn't able to hit the dragon, so I retreated to the narrow entrance again an trapped him with the spell wall of stones. Then I could finally hit him (sometimes), but I guess he would still have defeated my party if not for magic missile! Best spell ever, LOL.
The dragon's AI was also great, he even tried to dispel the walls, but he always left some standing (didn't target the right spot) and I was able to keep him trapped by casting new walls...
I really love epic end bosses!

One cleric I made to a melee guy with high STR, increased WIS to 20 all other points into STR. Weapon Focus Wand, Cleave, Great Cleave. I made him a Divine Power wand, adamantine +4 destruction & holy. Scribe Scroll for both Clerics, Improved Initiative, Superior Concentration, Greater Spell Penetration. The second caster-like cleric also had still spell. Other than that crafting feats.
The halfelf wizards were almost identical except different crafting feats. At lvl 18 one took Forge Ring and the other widen spell.
Improved Initiative, Superior Concentration, Greater Spell Penetration, Greater Focus Enchantment, Still, Empower and crafting feats.
I think it was that order:
Superior Concentration,Improved Initiative,enchant wand/enchant weapons&armor, spell penetration, still, greater spellpenetration, focus ench. , greater focus enchantment, empower etc something like that. I even took Weapon Focus ranged touch at lvl20 I think.

Thanks, I have to try something like this.
But first I want to try out a weapon finesse knight, so it will have to wait. I think I'll go with knight, cleric, cleric, mage. (First playthrough was with knight, knight, cleric, mage)