The trouble with Clerics

by **Darkion** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:01 am

It looks like *almost* every starting player gets stuck at the Orc Stockade or elsewhere, usually because they are trapped and in need of healing and their clerics are out of spells and there is no campfire in sight. It seems to me that Scribe Scroll and/or Craft Wand are skills essential to Clerics, but that fact is not really apparent when someone creates their first party and it can be extremely frustrating to get to a point in the game that you have to restart because you didn't know that you need to have a specific skill in order to survive.

So, I was wondering if giving Clerics an automatic Scribe Scrolls like the Wizards might be a possibility and if not, to change the initial "Recommended Feats" during Character Creation to include Scribe Scroll, right now the default recommendations are Dodge and Improved Concentration.

Since I already finished the game with one party and have two more in play at the moment I don't need these changes for myself, but they might help new players from becoming frustrated or giving up on the game.

by **waltshooter** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:24 am

I actually like it. Sure, it can be frustrating. But that's part of the old-school charm - not having all the hints and answers, until you learn better.

by **Darkion** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:02 am

waltshooter wrote:I actually like it. Sure, it can be frustrating. But that's part of the old-school charm - not having all the hints and answers, until you learn better.

Well, being mostly a retrogamer quite impervious to all the "next-generation game" hoo-hahs, I agree with you about the old school charm, but then I'm also a certified masochist. However, there is a difference between "not having all the hints and answers" and finding out that you were supposed to pick a specific feat in order to go further in the game. It happened to me, and I didn't care, I just started a new game with a new party and that was the end of it, for most players (even if they are still low level), having to scrap their game and start from scratch (if they didn't have a suitable backup or were playing in Ironman mode) it is a deal breaker.

by **waltshooter** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:39 am

True. Most gamers ... even those who love "old school" RPGs ... either never knew, or forgot, that part of playing PnP RPGs. Unless you had a forgiving DM, you were stuck with your choices and had to meddle through. Kinda like life. :lol:

Maybe rather than the advice being standard, it should be an option?

I know I don't even like the game advising me what feats to pick now. Mainly 'cause it never advises me to pick what I do anyway.

by **VentilatorOfDoom** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:05 pm

There are 3 campfires in the Orc Fortress as far as I remember, 2 of which spawn when you kill someone. Should be enough to come trough even without Craft Wand/Scribe Scroll. Although a wand of Fireball and Cure Wounds certainly makes it a breeze. One of this campfires is before you enter the point of no return, so you can enter fully rested.

by **Darkion** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:51 pm

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:There are 3 campfires in the Orc Fortress as far as I remember, 2 of which spawn when you kill someone. Should be enough to come trough even without Craft Wand/Scribe Scroll. Although a wand of Fireball and Cure Wounds certainly makes it a breeze. One of this campfires is before you enter the point of no return, so you can enter fully rested.

True, but something you yourself didn't know and had to ask about in the RPG Codex forums when your party was stuck in the Orc Stockade with low hit points.

by **barghest** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:03 pm

I'm a old school RPG'er and expected the game to be tough, but I didn't expect it was an requirement to get any of the crafting feats. Now I'm stuck at the Orc Fortress like a few other people. No easy way to progress other then to reload an old save.

I would prefer some additional camp-fires rather then having to use magic crafting. I don't like wasting feats on them...

by **VentilatorOfDoom** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:04 pm

Darkion wrote:
VentilatorOfDoom wrote:There are 3 campfires in the Orc Fortress as far as I remember, 2 of which spawn when you kill someone. Should be enough to come trough even without Craft Wand/Scribe Scroll. Although a wand of Fireball and Cure Wounds certainly makes it a breeze. One of this campfires is before you enter the point of no return, so you can enter fully rested.

True, but something you yourself didn't know and had to ask about in the RPG Codex forums when your party was stuck in the Orc Stockade with low hit points.

Precisely - but! I made it through, killed the Orc boss and my campfire spawned! Was pretty cool actually. Also back then I didn't know about the fire before you enter... would have been probably less painful had I entered fully rested.

by **Pod** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:38 pm

I didn't know about the Orc boss -- infact, I had killed Kessa (through sheer luck of rolls, really) before I killed them. Imagine the sounds that came out of my mouth, knowing that there was a camp fire waiting for me all that time... :/

by **VentilatorOfDoom** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Pod wrote:I didn't know about the Orc boss -- infact, I had killed Kessa (through sheer luck of rolls, really) before I killed them. Imagine the sounds that came out of my mouth, knowing that there was a camp fire waiting for me all that time... :/

Lesson learned: do not bargain with Slaver Orcs, rather do "bargain" with them.